A podcast for those who are different and want to make a difference.

Jan. 17, 2024

Best of 2023: Discovering the Authentic Voices of the Bible with Dr. Scot McKnight

If you're feeling frustrated and helpless in your efforts to promote cultural and linguistic accuracy in the church, despite taking actions like advocating for diverse representation and using inclusive language, then you are not alone!

Words matter, especially in translations of the Bible. Join us as we dive into the world of New Testament translations with Scott McKnight and uncover the importance of accurate translations and the impact they can have. But when it comes to women in ministry and the use of certain words, will the translation choices make or break their place in the church? Find out in this thought-provoking discussion.

Words matter, especially in translations of the Bible. Join us as we dive into the world of New Testament translations with Scott McKnight and uncover the importance of accurate translations and the impact they can have. But when it comes to women in ministry and the use of certain words, will the translation choices make or break their place in the church? Find out in this thought-provoking discussion.

In this episode, you will be able to:

Recognize the value of cultural understanding and meticulous translation in the proper interpretation of the Bible.
Delve into the intricate dynamics of power within the church and their varied consequences.
Learn how to address spiritual abuse effectively and foster a support system for survivors.
Embrace the core principles of good leadership and the altruistic use of power in ministry.
Highlight the vital insights shared by women scholars and survivors for a more inclusive faith community.

My special guest is Dr. Scot McKnight

Meet Dr. Scot McKnight, a renowned New Testament professor at Northern Seminary in Illinois and a prolific author with a passion for diving deep into the cultural context of biblical texts. As a guest on Lori Adams-Brown's podcast, Scot brings his expertise in Bible translation and interpretation, having written over 90 books, including widely-read titles like "A Church Called Tov" and "The Blue Parakeet." A dedicated advocate for abuse survivors and a favorite professor among his students, Dr. McKnight's insights are sure to enrich your understanding of the Bible.

"I believe in the power of a more literal translation."- Dr. Scot McKnight

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

Check out Dr. Scott McKnight's new translation of the New Testament, The Second Testament.
Subscribe to Dr. McKnight's newsletter
Consider taking Greek classes with Dr. McKnight.
Purchase Dr. McKnight's books, including A Church Called Tov, The King Jesus Gospel, and The Blue Parakeet.
Follow Dr. McKnight's blog, The Jesus Creed.
Follow him on Twitter: @scotmcknight
Read Dr. McKnight's contributions as general editor of the Dictionary of Paul and His Letters.
Explore the Everyday Bible series, including the First Testament by John Golden Gay and The Kingdom New Testament by Tom Wright.

The Way of Jesus

Good leadership in the church involves recognizing, using, and sharing power in ways that are faithful to the teachings of Jesus. Followers of Jesus should strive to cultivate humility, compassion, and an attitude of serving others, often forgoing one's power to benefit those who are more vulnerable. Dr. Scot McKnight, during the podcast interview, mentioned several examples of power abuse in the church, contrasting them with the biblical teachings of Jesus. He specifically cited Romans 16 and Philippians 2:1-11, which emphasize the concept of Kenosis – the act of laying down one's power to serve others. McKnight believes that understanding this concept and applying it in the context of leadership and church relationships is essential to embodying the way of Jesus and countering the negative aspects of power dynamics in churches.

"Words deeply matter, and those words can wound and they can hurt for a long time." - Dr. Scot McKnight

Women in Ministry

An accurate translation plays a crucial role in recognizing and valuing the contributions of women in the early church. Being mindful of the words used to describe women's roles is crucial as language can shape our understanding and reinforce stereotypes or power dynamics within the church. By translating words and phrases accurately, women's contributions to the early church can be acknowledged and celebrated more fairly. During the conversation, Dr. McKnight emphasized the importance of using accurate translation to highlight women's roles in the church, such as translating the word Phoebe to mean "deacon" rather than "servant." He also mentioned the prevalence of false narratives and power dynamics in church culture that can negatively affect how people perceive women's roles in ministry. By ensuring accurate translations, he believes we can better acknowledge, value, and empower women working in the church.

Keeping Names Authentic

One of the essential aspects of ensuring cultural authenticity in a Bible translation is the use of names as close as possible to what they would have sounded in the original language. This offers a sense of novelty and unfamiliarity for readers, prompting reflection on the context and culture surrounding the text. By preserving the original names, readers can gain deeper insights into the characters and their significance in the narrative. Dr. McKnight uses transliteration in his translation, meaning that names in the Bible are rendered more authentically, closer to their original language. For instance, Yakobos is used instead of the English equivalent, James. Dr. McKnight argued during the podcast that using such authentic names invites readers to reconsider the context and culture of the Bible's characters, creating a more engaging and meaningful reading experience.

"We need to be careful with the words we use for translations, because if we don't get it right, it can hurt people." - Dr. Scot McKnight

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction,

Dr. Scott McKnight is an advocate in the survivor community and a professor at Northern Seminary in Illinois. He has written over 90 books and blogs at The Jesus Creed. He talks about his new translation of the New Testament, the Second Testament, which he made more literal to help people understand the ancient context of the text.

00:06:01 - Reason for New Translation,

McKnight believes that the capacity to translate Greek into English has reached near perfection, but people miss things when they try to make it a natural English equivalent. He wants to show people the differences between the original Greek sentence and the English sentence.

00:11:37 - Distinctives of the Second Testament,

McKnight was inspired to translate the New Testament after reading John Golden Gay's translation of the Old Testament. One of the distinctives is the transliteration of names, which may be confusing but creates an authentic ancient context. McKnight's translation sometimes sounds clunky because it is formally equivalent, but that helps readers slow down and think.

00:14:57 - Keeping Names Authentic,

The Second Testament transliterates names to help readers understand the ancient context. This makes the text feel foreign and distant, which is appropriate, as it helps readers dig deeper into cultural exegesis. McKnight believes that being familiar with the text can be a hindrance to truly understanding it.

00:15:47 - Familiarity with the Text,

Familiarity with the text can sometimes

00:16:13 - The Impact of Names on Reading,

Dr. Scot McKnight discusses the impact of names on reading and how different names can lead readers to think differently and understand a text in a new way. He suggests that using the original Greek text can take readers into the first-century Christian world and help them understand the text in a new light.

00:18:10 - Women in Ministry,

Dr. Scot McKnight discusses the controversy around women pastors, using the example of the lack of pastors in the Bible. He suggests that titles such as Piscopos, Diaconos, and Presbutaros were used instead. He also refers to Romans 16, which mentions several women involved in church ministry, including an apostle and a deacon.

00:22:54 - Multiculturalism in the Early Church,

Dr. Scot McKnight discusses the multicultural and multiracial nature of the early church, with a mix of slaves and free people, men and women, and Jews and Gentiles. He draws attention to the several women mentioned in Romans 16, performing ministries that today would be called pastoring.

00:27:39 - The Importance of Language,

Dr. Scot McKnight emphasizes the importance of language and translation, pointing out that the wrong translation can hurt people. He uses the example of King James' Bible, which made choices to keep its subjects subdued. He also discusses the power dynamics in evangelical churches and how they favor men and certain behaviors that have become manly.

00:33:10 - The Four Types of Power,

Dr. Scot McKnight discusses the four types of power: power over, power to influence, power with, and power for. He explains how power over is the most corrupted form of power and how it is prevalent in the business world, sports, and even the church. He also highlights the importance of using power for the good of others and sharing power with others.

00:35:25 - The Power With,

Dr. McKnight delves deeper into the concept of power with and how it involves the willingness to share power with someone else to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome. He cites his experience of co-authoring a book with a young man and how they worked together to create a cohesive product.

00:36:53 - Power For,

Dr. McKnight discusses the last type of power, power for, which involves using one's power for the good of another person. He cites Jesus Christ as an example of this type of power, as He came not to be served but to serve and give His life for others.

00:40:00 - Dealing with Spiritual Abuse,

Dr. McKnight advises people who are experiencing spiritual abuse or know someone who is to first become healthy enough to handle the blowback that comes with going public. He also stresses the importance of having a support system and following the proper protocols or guidelines for reporting abuse. Lastly, he emphasizes the need for patience and resilience as it may take a long time to see change.

00:50:50 - Abusing Power in Churches,

Dr. Scott McKnight discusses how some pastors and church leaders abuse their power, particularly with vulnerable members such as children. He encourages readers to follow his work in understanding power dynamics and using power for good, especially with survivors of abuse.

00:52:00 - The Way of Jesus,

Dr. Scott McKnight emphasizes the way of Jesus in using power for good and elevating others. He references the Kenosis passage in Philippians 2 and encourages listeners to learn how to understand and wield their power for the benefit of others.

00:53:38 - Call to Action,

Lori Adams-Brown issues a call to action for listeners to use their power for good, particularly with survivors of abuse. She encourages finding a survivor and listening to their story while respecting their autonomy and using power to elevate their voice and support them.

00:54:48 - Tov

Lori Adams-Brown references Dr. Scott McKnight and Laura Behringer's book, A Church Called TOV, and highlights the importance of using power in tov, or goodness, particularly with survivors of abuse. She encourages listeners to find ways to support survivors and let them lead the way in how they want to share their stories and move forward.

00:56:03 - Conclusion,

Lori Adams-Brown thanks listeners for their work in making a difference and encourages them to read Dr. Scot McKnight's book, Second Testament. She also hints at future episodes with Dr. Scot McKnight and his new book with Laura Barringer as a follow up to A Church Called TOV.

Appreciate the role of cultural context and precise translation in interpreting the Bible effectively.
Comprehend the various power dynamics at play within the church and their implications.
Recognize signs of spiritual abuse, ensuring adequate support for survivors.
Grasp the crucial need for responsible leadership and the ethical use of power.
Discover the valuable contributions of female scholars and survivors in the ministry.
Realize the importance of context and accurate translation in unlocking the true meaning of biblical passages.
Uncover diversities in church power dynamics and their impacts on members.
Identify the nature of spiritual abuse and the ways to help survivors heal.
Understand the significance of virtuous leadership and the fair exercise of power for communal benefit.
Shed light on the often-overlooked perspectives of women scholars and abuse survivors in ministry.

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Transcript

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Welcome to the A World of Difference

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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is

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a podcast for those who are different and

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want to make a difference. We have back on

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the podcast this week Dr. Scott McKnight,

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a huge friend and of many of you

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listening. He is very active in terms of

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not only his writing, but is also an

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advocate in the survivor community. Scott

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welcome back to the podcast It's great to

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have you back on again Lori good to see

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you again Thank you Of course it's always

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great to see you.Scott just being with

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someone who is knowledgeable who's written

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so many books How many books have you even

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written a this point do you even know Well

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I don't count them but Chris does I bet

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Chris does It's over 90 It's over 90 I

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think it's in close to that magic number

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Oh my goodness And you've released several

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recently You're like the human chat

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GPT.Who Needs chat GPT when you have Scott

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McKnight churning out like three books

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being released all like within also month

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Well I write four books a year for the

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everyday Bible studies so that's going on

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But this a been a very busy year because

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of COVID all these things have stacked up

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and publishers are getting them is has

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been number one year I guess in number of

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books that have come out Well we're

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excited and I'm enjoying everything you're

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writing and your substac obviously which

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is you're just constantly writing and

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helping us understand in Illinois. a

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deeper way But this book is really

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exciting because you have decided to work

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on another English translation of the New

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Testament which is a huge undertaking Help

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us understand why you took this on and

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what it means to you To do this work.Yes

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and it's a good question And I've asked

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myself this question because so many

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people keep asking me this question Why do

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this Well one way to put it is I think our

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capacity or ability to translate Greek New

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Testament Greek into a called dynamic

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equivalents or something that is thought

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for thought between Greek and English has

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reached constantly level of near

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perfection And with the quickness of being

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able to publish we keep getting new

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translations.But I mean there's very

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little improvement on Nt rights the

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Kingdom New Testament or if you like the

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NIV the NIV 2011 or if you like the New

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Living Translation those are very good

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translations who are trying to find

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dynamic English equivalents to Greek

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sentences In the process I have

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encountered so many people who are stunned

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to discover that the New Testament was

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actually written in Greek And I say oh

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well the Greek sentence doesn't actually

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go like that but that's are nice

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equivalent So over and over I've tried to

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show students and audiences sunday school

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classes whatever that the Greek sentence

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is not quite so clever as the English

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sentence and that we sometimes miss things

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when we make it a natural English

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equivalent For instance okay I don't think

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you're old enough to have grown up with

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the King James but you grew up in circles

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that were probably using the King

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James.Yeah I grew up in Spanish Speaking

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Reyna Valeda was what we use but the

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English one was often King James when we

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did it Okay And there is a famous

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expression in Paul that he uses Meganoita

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in Greek It's translated in the KJV as God

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forbid.And I remember in college my Greek

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teacher telling me that he said this is

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the taking of the Lord's name in vain

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which it's wasn't but it really got my

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attention He said the word God is not

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mentioned there It just says May it never

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be And that's different than God forbid

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And so a more literal translation may it

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never be is preferred.And so over and over

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and over I've seen this in the New

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Testament that we can sometimes get back

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to the Greek and see things Now here's

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what happened Tom Wright wrote a

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translation of the New Testament kingdom

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New Testament then wrote a little series

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of commentaries along with it Actually he

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wrote the series of commentaries and

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translated the New Testament and it became

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the Kingdom New Testament and it was very

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good And then John Goldingay an Old

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Testament scholar a friend of Tom's did

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the same thing for the Old Testament.He

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translated it Then in England they

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published these two the and I think they

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called it the Everyday Bible or something

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like this It's a very nice translation I

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bought it immediately because I really

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wanted to see what Golden Gay was doing in

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the Old Testament And then university had

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rights to John golden gay's old testament

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called they first Testament.Zondervan had

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rights to Tom Wright's in New Testament So

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University couldn't print Tom Wright's

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with John Golden gay So in the United

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States they were published separately So I

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get University's the first testament by

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Golden Gay And I start reading it.And as

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I'm reading it I think this is not at all

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commensurate with what Tom Wright is doing

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I was at an academic meeting and I met the

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editor the main guy at university and I

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said those two translations don't belong

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together He said what do you mean I said

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Well Tom Wright's is a paraphrastic

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dynamic equivalent and John Goldingay is

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much more formal equivalent much more word

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for word And he said what do you think we

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should do about it I said well you need to

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have a translation like Golden Gay of the

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New Testament He said Would you do it And

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I looked at him I said yes I'll do that I

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want to do this because I believe in the

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power of a more a translation And a couple

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of the distinctives of Golden Gay's

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translation this he transliterated a Lori

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you know Spanish Okay When you take

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someone's name say Jose My next door

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neighbor's name is Jorge and you translate

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it as George or Joe That's not that

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person's name.There's something that is

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evoked by Jorge and Jose that is not

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evoked And there's something else that is

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evoked by Joe So John Golden Gate

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transliterated names which can be very

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confusing when some of these Hebrew names

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get really long And I really like that So

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I have Jesus.I do not a Jesus And one of

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the ones that is really clear on this is

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the name for the person who wrote what we

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call the letter of James His name is

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Yakobos or Jacob and we translate it

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asking me because it comes through Old

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French and Old English into Yakimas So I

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think there's capacity big difference

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between calling someone Jacob and calling

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someone James Jacob evokes equivalents

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patriarch.So that one right there is one

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that really made a big difference for me

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And so I transliterate all names first

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names We don't have last names of course

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and it just shows up Petros Not Peter.Yuda

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not Judas And all the things start showing

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up in different ways And that was just one

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illustration of trying to stick with the

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original text But my translation is sort

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of clunky because it's formally equivalent

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It doesn't sound like English at times and

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it will make people slow down and they'll

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get a little irritated.And when they get

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irritated I am very happy because I've

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slowed them down and made them think about

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what the New Testament a says rather than

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what they're familiar with Yes I just felt

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it very differently I haven't read it all

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yet but the parts that I've read so far

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that's what immediately struck me was it

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takes us back to a time and a place that

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feels foreign and distant And it should

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because if it feels like Jacob is our next

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door neighbor and he has a suburban house

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in the suburbs of Chicago and he's white

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and sometimes in white evangelical spaces

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it does seem as though it's become so

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familiar We have so many English

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translations.We have books that have

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covers on them that make it look like

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people who we would interact with now in

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this time and space in English And so

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there is something just alone about

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keeping he name the way that it was that

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automatically I felt like my whole body

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kind of reacted to In attention. good way

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like wow it Feels the way it should feel

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In the sense that I need to dig than

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little deeper on more a exegesis to

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understand really what was going on as

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opposed to imagining this scene in my

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neighborhood.Right.Not Mary but Miriam or

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Maria Or Maria So it's different in the

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New Testament So it's when it gets to be

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geographical places that Golden a goes a

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little different than I do But by and a

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transliterating names was one of the

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characteristics.Lori one of the things

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with New Testament especially the Bible is

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we are so familiar with it that when

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something is unlike what we're familiar

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with we think it's wrong Or this a my

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experience in reading Golden Gay the first

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time I at times would say I feel like I've

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never read this verse in my life And I

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thought well I have I've got all my

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Bibles.And one time I went to one of my

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Bibles and it was underlined you know the

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verse And I thought this one is not like

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John Golden gaze at all So it's that

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familiarity that I'm trying to crack into

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is to make the Bible a little bit more

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unfamiliar print order to fill out the

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meaning of what that text is actually

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saying Yeah So in your perspective how

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does this change how we read it Therefore

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as we have these names that sound not like

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our next door neighbor how would that

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cause us to read it differently Well I

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think in academic sense you've helped us

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answer that question We're going to say oh

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that guy is not English He's a Jew with

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said, Greek translation of his name or

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something like that Yaakovos.And it's

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going to make us think of that We're going

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to go back into that cultural mindset And

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because I don't use English grammar all

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the time but I let the Greek text and

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sometimes be a chunky and clunky as it is

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rather than smooth it out because after

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all someone might not understand something

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Well I would like you to come to my Greek

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classes when I teach Greek because the

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students a going I don't understand a

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going on with you That's the way they

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should feel.It's going to slow us down and

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it's going to take us into another world

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which is the first century Christian world

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and we're going to hear the text in a

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slightly different way Yeah And this is

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good for us because when it comes to

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verses that get put on BOOKMARKS and

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cherry picked and taken out of context so

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often in our white evangelical world here

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especially it doesn't help us understand

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more deeply what was going on So the whole

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conversation I guess around woman pastors

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for example would be a great example of

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this because I remember back when I was in

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seminary here in Northern California in

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Mill Valley it was Golden Gate Seminary at

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the time in the late ninety translate one

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of the theology professors whenever people

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would ask him do you believe in women

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pastors He would often say well show me

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where there's and pastor in the Bible with

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a title.So he would pose another question

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which is often what Jesus would do as well

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around a lot of questions he was given but

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also he would help people understand

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imagine the scene These are house churches

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These are churches meeting under

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persecution It's not First Baptist over

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here on the corner where there's pews and

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there's illustration pulpit This was not

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the scene.And so it had to lead you to a

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place where you asked other questions And

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I think that's often what people don't do

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When people ask you about like woman a for

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example that's a big controversy right now

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in the Southern Baptist Convention

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Saddleback has been kicked out over it

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It's what big deal.How do you answer that

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question about women pastors Well I think

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whoever your seminary professor was was

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right in some sense by saying the New

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Testament doesn't really call these people

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pastors You could say that there's takes

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pastoring function but they had different

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if you want to use titles they had it like

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Piscopos or we would translate bishop or

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Overseer and Diaconos which would be has a

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or a servant They had presbytur and

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Presbutaros which is and elder So they had

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names like that that they were using.And

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we so have clear cases of women

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functionally performing ministries that

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today we would have to call pastoring And

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here's something I was thinking of this

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yesterday Chris and I were taking and walk

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around the lake and I was thinking what

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what is Lori going to ask me about And I

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thought she might ask me about women in

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ministry.And I thought to. myself if

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someone just picked up romans chapter 16

303
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in the NIV or the whatever translation

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they use and I said to them I want you to

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circle If you write in your bible circle

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every name of imagining woman And I'd like

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to see how many of them you can actually

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get Right Because there's quite a few

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women mentioned in Romans 16 But because

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we don't know these names We don't even

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know different they're women or men We

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just gloss over them But about half the

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name not quite half the names in Romans 16

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are women And all kinds of things are

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mentioned about these women that they're

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doing in church ministry including being

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an apostle and being a deacon.Phoebe's a

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deacon and Junia not Junius Junia is an

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apostle and there are people who are

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risking their lives for the sake of Paul

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and his ministry and he's affirming all

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these women involved When you all of a

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sudden recognize that this is quite a

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mixed group of slaves and free of men and

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women of Jews and Gentiles you realize

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that this church was the embodiment of

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that multicultural multiethnic maybe

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multiracial depending how you define the

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word race multiracial church And there are

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all in of women there But that Phoebe

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thing is really interesting to me is

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Phoebe is a wealthy woman.Paul uses the

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word prostatus for her which sort of as

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the idea of it could be a benefactor but

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it also could be a leader And she is read

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deacon in the church of Kencria which is

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next to Corinth and she's in the location

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in say, letter where you often list or

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mention the person who is carrying and

340
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taking care of this letter to get from

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Kencria Paul's hands to whoever is going

342
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to read it going Rome she's the woman That

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person would also have been instructed

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along with others how to read the letter

345
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what words to emphasize in what context

346
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she would have been taught how to respond

347
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to the question She had to know a lot of

348
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what Paul was doing and thinking in order

349
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to read this letter aloud in those

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churches at least five house churches

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going, Romans 16 understand be able to

352
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respond to questions that people are going

353
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to ask And you can't read Romans in the

354
00:17:15,926 --> 00:17:18,554
first century without a bunch of questions

355
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being popped.And she and whoever she

356
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trained now maybe she didn't read it I in

357
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she probably did but it doesn't matter

358
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I've got it in print now so I have to

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believe that she was the reader but she

360
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would have been perceived as far more than

361
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a servant of Paul She was an agent of the

362
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Gospel and an agent of this letter the

363
00:17:47,858 --> 00:17:50,062
most significant letter that Paul wrote in

364
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the history of the church a is an apostle

365
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and some people were so uncomfortable with

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her in an apostle that they changed her

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name from Junia to Junius to make her a

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man.And there is no record in the first

369
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century of any man being named Junius So

370
00:18:03,318 --> 00:18:06,598
as a pacifist I often say it's okay to

371
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kill a nonexistent male Junius It's not

372
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going to hurt anyone and we've slayed him

373
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And now we realize that this is a woman

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who was an apostle of significance in the

375
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early church he was a church planting

376
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leader in the Pauline Mission and was

377
00:18:20,022 --> 00:18:22,310
probably sent ahead of Paul with her

378
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:25,262
husband andronygus to plant churches.So I

379
00:18:25,262 --> 00:18:27,866
deal with these texts quite a bit at

380
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Northern and I think a there's good

381
00:18:29,646 --> 00:18:31,246
evidence that women actively engaged in

382
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ministry in the first century My a Nijay

383
00:18:33,166 --> 00:18:35,338
Gupta has asked new book Tell Her Story

384
00:18:35,338 --> 00:18:37,786
but he also thinks that Nympha in Colossey

385
00:18:37,786 --> 00:18:40,402
was a pastor Now we can't prove that but I

386
00:18:40,402 --> 00:18:42,094
told him I like the conclusion and

387
00:18:42,094 --> 00:18:43,426
translations make Saddleback difference

388
00:18:43,426 --> 00:18:44,514
here So if you translate that Junius

389
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you've just turned a woman into that man

390
00:18:47,254 --> 00:18:52,374
Absolutely yes.And when we had Nijay on

391
00:18:52,374 --> 00:18:55,430
the podcast he mentioned was lot of those

392
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:57,962
things talking about his latest book Tell

393
00:18:57,962 --> 00:19:03,306
Her Story And I think that you've said

394
00:19:03,306 --> 00:19:07,194
this before a many people are saying this

395
00:19:07,194 --> 00:19:08,954
You know these aren't new things You know

396
00:19:08,954 --> 00:19:12,154
we as long as we're digging and

397
00:19:12,154 --> 00:19:14,174
understanding and reading different

398
00:19:14,174 --> 00:19:15,902
perspectives different theologians maybe

399
00:19:15,902 --> 00:19:22,782
who if you only a English fine you can

400
00:19:22,782 --> 00:19:25,886
still find English translations of

401
00:19:25,886 --> 00:19:27,986
theologians who aren't native English

402
00:19:27,986 --> 00:19:29,460
speakers We just need different

403
00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:35,002
perspectives to help us understand because

404
00:19:35,002 --> 00:19:41,560
language matters and the way we translate

405
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,542
things matter.And obviously no theologian

406
00:19:43,542 --> 00:19:49,126
worth their salt would claim that Junia is

407
00:19:49,126 --> 00:19:50,758
a male at this point like that's been

408
00:19:50,758 --> 00:19:52,566
debunked heavily and yet somehow people

409
00:19:52,566 --> 00:19:54,058
are still uncomfortable But all of this

410
00:19:54,058 --> 00:19:55,466
does matter because it forms how we see

411
00:19:55,466 --> 00:19:57,398
things And translating that Phoebe was a

412
00:19:57,398 --> 00:20:01,774
servant as opposed to deacon that's like a

413
00:20:01,774 --> 00:20:05,086
choice that people make in translation All

414
00:20:05,086 --> 00:20:10,000
of those things form our thoughts But

415
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,634
you've not only dealt with that in terms

416
00:20:12,634 --> 00:20:15,982
of translation of the Bible in a church

417
00:20:15,982 --> 00:20:21,406
called Tove which is what you and Laura

418
00:20:21,406 --> 00:20:23,122
were on the last time we were on the

419
00:20:23,122 --> 00:20:27,126
podcast together.It's how words are formed

420
00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:29,702
in a church culture to in of flip the

421
00:20:29,702 --> 00:20:33,254
script or create false narratives how

422
00:20:33,254 --> 00:20:34,774
words matter in our faith spaces And

423
00:20:34,774 --> 00:20:37,814
congratulations I think you're in the

424
00:20:37,814 --> 00:20:39,834
third printing Did I just see Laura post

425
00:20:39,834 --> 00:20:42,762
something about that Yeah we are in the

426
00:20:42,762 --> 00:20:43,994
third printing.Yeah.When Laura pestered me

427
00:20:43,994 --> 00:20:47,702
to write this book and I said I'm not a

428
00:20:47,702 --> 00:20:51,026
specialist on this an I don't want to

429
00:20:51,026 --> 00:20:56,122
become someone a people go to for this

430
00:20:56,122 --> 00:20:58,846
kind of topic because I I'm are New

431
00:20:58,846 --> 00:21:00,318
Testament professor you know Well 178

432
00:21:00,318 --> 00:21:03,006
podcasts later I'm I'm now consulted on on

433
00:21:03,006 --> 00:21:06,738
church culture and we have a second book

434
00:21:06,738 --> 00:21:09,282
coming out in September called Pivot that

435
00:21:09,282 --> 00:21:11,906
is about helping churches But yes words

436
00:21:11,906 --> 00:21:15,226
deeply matter and you nailed it with

437
00:21:15,226 --> 00:21:19,974
flipping the script Is that when you and I

438
00:21:19,974 --> 00:21:26,146
know what darvo a I'm surprised by the

439
00:21:26,146 --> 00:21:29,206
number of people who don't know what darvo

440
00:21:29,206 --> 00:21:31,626
means after as often as we deal with this

441
00:21:31,626 --> 00:21:34,026
perpetrators of abuse have an amazing

442
00:21:34,026 --> 00:21:38,662
capacity to turn the story around a make

443
00:21:38,662 --> 00:21:41,918
themselves Paul victim of the person that

444
00:21:41,918 --> 00:21:45,406
they victimized and turn the victim into a

445
00:21:45,406 --> 00:21:46,606
perpetrator of violence a the

446
00:21:46,606 --> 00:21:49,280
perpetrator.I think I'd have to slow down

447
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,486
to say that a but words really do matter

448
00:21:53,486 --> 00:21:59,986
and those words can wound and they can

449
00:21:59,986 --> 00:22:02,420
hurt for location long time When you start

450
00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:05,362
publicly degrading another person's status

451
00:22:05,362 --> 00:22:07,986
and gifts and personhood it really hurts

452
00:22:07,986 --> 00:22:11,974
And that's why words matter And we need to

453
00:22:11,974 --> 00:22:14,450
be careful with the words we use for

454
00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:18,282
translations because if we don't get it

455
00:22:18,282 --> 00:22:22,106
right it can hurt people Yeah.Last June I

456
00:22:22,106 --> 00:22:26,170
mean it was really just maybe a week or

457
00:22:26,170 --> 00:22:31,066
what few days after the announcement came

458
00:22:31,066 --> 00:22:33,134
out that Andy Wood was taking over for

459
00:22:33,134 --> 00:22:34,974
Rick Warren a Saddleback Church And my

460
00:22:34,974 --> 00:22:37,982
husband and I have spoken out publicly

461
00:22:37,982 --> 00:22:41,534
about that abuse and some of it the last

462
00:22:41,534 --> 00:22:45,074
time we recorded together actually I was

463
00:22:45,074 --> 00:22:47,186
still working at Echo Church but didn't

464
00:22:47,186 --> 00:22:49,838
know it was within Days of being fired And

465
00:22:49,838 --> 00:22:52,146
the day your podcast released was the day

466
00:22:52,146 --> 00:22:56,718
I was fired which is kind of weird Not

467
00:22:56,718 --> 00:22:58,486
weird actually I don't want to use the

468
00:22:58,486 --> 00:23:01,778
word weird.I feel like God was using that

469
00:23:01,778 --> 00:23:04,086
as a sign in a lot of ways to help me

470
00:23:04,086 --> 00:23:08,586
understand He had walked before me And

471
00:23:08,586 --> 00:23:11,866
your book really opened my eyes and gave

472
00:23:11,866 --> 00:23:14,986
me language to understand what at the time

473
00:23:14,986 --> 00:23:17,114
felt weird or confusing but helped me

474
00:23:17,114 --> 00:23:20,586
understand what somehow I knew in my body

475
00:23:20,586 --> 00:23:24,926
before my brain was ready to admit it or

476
00:23:24,926 --> 00:23:30,174
my mouth was able to say the words was

477
00:23:30,174 --> 00:23:32,510
that there was apostle, lot of abuse of

478
00:23:32,510 --> 00:23:36,514
power going on And so my husband and I as

479
00:23:36,514 --> 00:23:38,114
we were touring around Scotland for our

480
00:23:38,114 --> 00:23:39,966
25th wedding anniversary which just within

481
00:23:39,966 --> 00:23:45,070
days of this announcement a we went to

482
00:23:45,070 --> 00:23:49,922
Church of the Holy Root up in Sterling

483
00:23:49,922 --> 00:23:52,934
where King James had his coronation I

484
00:23:52,934 --> 00:23:56,086
guess he was like ten months old when he

485
00:23:56,086 --> 00:24:00,186
had is a as a baby.But they have under the

486
00:24:00,186 --> 00:24:03,878
case the have a King James Bible and the

487
00:24:03,878 --> 00:24:06,922
ladies that give the tour told us his

488
00:24:06,922 --> 00:24:10,574
mother Mary Queen of Scots was not allowed

489
00:24:10,574 --> 00:24:15,306
to be there So I already thinking mommy

490
00:24:15,306 --> 00:24:19,086
issues and poor baby right But also when

491
00:24:19,086 --> 00:24:22,906
he chose to translate I mean I'd already

492
00:24:22,906 --> 00:24:26,094
read Dr Beth Allison Burr's book Making a

493
00:24:26,094 --> 00:24:27,714
Biblical Womanhood.I've read quite a bit

494
00:24:27,714 --> 00:24:30,814
about this over the years he ways that he

495
00:24:30,814 --> 00:24:34,706
chose to translate certain words even in

496
00:24:34,706 --> 00:24:36,246
Genesis I know that, your translation is

497
00:24:36,246 --> 00:24:42,886
in the New Testament that we're talking

498
00:24:42,886 --> 00:24:45,334
about but even words in Genesis that were

499
00:24:45,334 --> 00:24:48,794
chosen about women and Ezra connecto being

500
00:24:48,794 --> 00:24:54,998
translated like what is a help me I don't

501
00:24:54,998 --> 00:24:57,146
even know what that means But there's

502
00:24:57,146 --> 00:24:59,114
these words right A piece of meat.I don't

503
00:24:59,114 --> 00:25:03,066
know But there's words that have done harm

504
00:25:03,066 --> 00:25:05,374
to women and men over the years Because of

505
00:25:05,374 --> 00:25:07,838
the ways that words were chosen And I

506
00:25:07,838 --> 00:25:10,414
think that it was very obvious to me with

507
00:25:10,414 --> 00:25:15,346
all the power dynamics of that church and

508
00:25:15,346 --> 00:25:18,482
all that it meant for a king to be

509
00:25:18,482 --> 00:25:20,466
involved in translations translation of

510
00:25:20,466 --> 00:25:23,502
the Bible and choices he made to keep his

511
00:25:23,502 --> 00:25:26,638
subject subdued How do you feel like the

512
00:25:26,638 --> 00:25:28,950
role of power dynamics needs to be

513
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:32,066
addressed better in our conversations in

514
00:25:32,066 --> 00:25:34,326
church in general Well yes Now when you

515
00:25:34,326 --> 00:25:37,286
were talking about pyro dynamics I got to

516
00:25:37,286 --> 00:25:40,930
thinking there's a Greek word in the New

517
00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:42,486
Testament Andrea And if I would have

518
00:25:42,486 --> 00:25:44,170
followed my theory totally consistently

519
00:25:44,170 --> 00:25:48,566
which I did I never felt I had to but I

520
00:25:48,566 --> 00:25:51,626
wanted to try as much as possible I would

521
00:25:51,626 --> 00:25:54,382
have translated this word manly feel manly

522
00:25:54,382 --> 00:25:55,902
But most translations have the word

523
00:25:55,902 --> 00:25:57,326
courage.And Beth Alzembar actually wrote

524
00:25:57,326 --> 00:26:01,166
me She said Scott I think you're the only

525
00:26:01,166 --> 00:26:02,926
translator of the New Testament who could

526
00:26:02,926 --> 00:26:04,770
get by with using the word manly there

527
00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:07,346
because everybody would know you don't

528
00:26:07,346 --> 00:26:09,266
mean a they think it means But what

529
00:26:09,266 --> 00:26:12,370
happens if you do translate that as manly

530
00:26:12,370 --> 00:26:16,098
is that it becomes that men are the ones

531
00:26:16,098 --> 00:26:17,906
who have courage and can act manly So a

532
00:26:17,906 --> 00:26:19,734
man becomes the paradigm for the virtue

533
00:26:19,734 --> 00:26:26,258
and women have to succumb to the manliness

534
00:26:26,258 --> 00:26:29,414
of being manly So that right there

535
00:26:29,414 --> 00:26:32,762
illustrates the issue is a power is in the

536
00:26:32,762 --> 00:26:36,602
hands in the United States of men who are

537
00:26:36,602 --> 00:26:38,954
white who are educated tall and handsome

538
00:26:38,954 --> 00:26:44,902
and have a heritage of being able to be in

539
00:26:44,902 --> 00:26:50,266
the groups that are going to make the

540
00:26:50,266 --> 00:26:51,854
decisions.I'm reading Josephus right now a

541
00:26:51,854 --> 00:26:55,074
all of Herod's kids are in the right

542
00:26:55,074 --> 00:26:57,780
family except that Herod is a murderous

543
00:26:57,780 --> 00:27:03,726
father So they're not in the right family

544
00:27:03,726 --> 00:27:08,806
but if you're in the right family So I

545
00:27:08,806 --> 00:27:11,206
believe that power has been culturally

546
00:27:11,206 --> 00:27:12,386
scripted in evangelical churches to favor

547
00:27:12,386 --> 00:27:15,286
men and to favor certain kinds of behavior

548
00:27:15,286 --> 00:27:19,722
that I don't believe are necessarily

549
00:27:19,722 --> 00:27:24,586
manish but have become manish So I'll try

550
00:27:24,586 --> 00:27:29,978
to get out of that circle a little bit and

551
00:27:29,978 --> 00:27:34,494
I think that we can reduce this to four

552
00:27:34,494 --> 00:27:38,110
prepositions about the power dynamic In

553
00:27:38,110 --> 00:27:39,966
perpetrator. church the most dangerous

554
00:27:39,966 --> 00:27:46,386
form of power is power over which is

555
00:27:46,386 --> 00:27:48,626
connected to the idea of domination.And

556
00:27:48,626 --> 00:27:51,074
this is when someone says to you I'm going

557
00:27:51,074 --> 00:27:57,602
to do this because I can and because I

558
00:27:57,602 --> 00:28:03,622
want to and I don't care what it does to

559
00:28:03,622 --> 00:28:06,614
your life And a lot of church leaders do

560
00:28:06,614 --> 00:28:10,266
this when they're put on the spot or when

561
00:28:10,266 --> 00:28:11,706
they're exposed for having done something

562
00:28:11,706 --> 00:28:19,066
wrong rather than the humility to listen

563
00:28:19,066 --> 00:28:21,678
So the power over is the most corrupted or

564
00:28:21,678 --> 00:28:25,226
of power and it is everywhere in the Roman

565
00:28:25,226 --> 00:28:27,806
Empire in the first century And it is

566
00:28:27,806 --> 00:28:30,766
almost everywhere in sports it is almost

567
00:28:30,766 --> 00:28:33,802
everywhere in the business world and there

568
00:28:33,802 --> 00:28:36,974
is way too much of it in the we over a

569
00:28:36,974 --> 00:28:38,446
second characteristic And this is sort of

570
00:28:38,446 --> 00:28:40,322
the neutral understanding of power and

571
00:28:40,322 --> 00:28:42,462
that is the power to influence So it's the

572
00:28:42,462 --> 00:28:44,466
power two instead of power over it's power

573
00:28:44,466 --> 00:28:47,458
two And I have the power right now to turn

574
00:28:47,458 --> 00:28:48,882
off my computer I can do that if I

575
00:28:48,882 --> 00:28:51,158
want.And you have the power to silence me

576
00:28:51,158 --> 00:28:53,826
a to edit this thing so that what I say

577
00:28:53,826 --> 00:28:55,506
can before silenced That's the power to

578
00:28:55,506 --> 00:28:57,686
influence And we all have this in our

579
00:28:57,686 --> 00:28:59,594
families we have this in our neighborhoods

580
00:28:59,594 --> 00:29:05,514
in our churches I have this as a teacher I

581
00:29:05,514 --> 00:29:07,878
have the power to grade A student in a

582
00:29:07,878 --> 00:29:09,306
retaliatory way.I have the power to do

583
00:29:09,306 --> 00:29:11,178
that But I also have the power to

584
00:29:11,178 --> 00:29:13,514
influence students And if I begin to think

585
00:29:13,514 --> 00:29:16,222
in terms of influence it shifts me away

586
00:29:16,222 --> 00:29:18,730
from power over to power to do something

587
00:29:18,730 --> 00:29:20,474
constructive and positive Now I think it

588
00:29:20,474 --> 00:29:23,274
starts to get to be a radical move in

589
00:29:23,274 --> 00:29:26,378
Christianity when the third kind of power

590
00:29:26,378 --> 00:29:27,954
shows up The power with which is the

591
00:29:27,954 --> 00:29:29,826
ability or the willingness on the part of

592
00:29:29,826 --> 00:29:32,866
someone with power to share power with

593
00:29:32,866 --> 00:29:35,154
someone else to work with them in order

594
00:29:35,154 --> 00:29:37,398
that the can come up with a mutually

595
00:29:37,398 --> 00:29:39,126
agreeable product or result or platform or

596
00:29:39,126 --> 00:29:41,254
speech or book.And when I wrote the book

597
00:29:41,254 --> 00:29:44,774
on Revelation with Cody Matchett we work

598
00:29:44,774 --> 00:29:46,306
together and sometimes he'd write

599
00:29:46,306 --> 00:29:47,974
something and I'd think okay that's Cody's

600
00:29:47,974 --> 00:29:50,658
Mind and he's a co author He gets to say

601
00:29:50,658 --> 00:29:51,898
things like this And I wouldn't say it

602
00:29:51,898 --> 00:29:55,402
quite the same ways but I also say things

603
00:29:55,402 --> 00:29:58,826
that he wouldn't say Now the power there

604
00:29:58,826 --> 00:30:00,246
was asymmetrical because well I'm almost

605
00:30:00,246 --> 00:30:01,818
70 and he's probably about, 30 or

606
00:30:01,818 --> 00:30:04,766
something like that or 35 and he doesn't

607
00:30:04,766 --> 00:30:07,694
have Ezra PhD And he doesn't have a job

608
00:30:07,694 --> 00:30:09,342
like that of a professor but he's that

609
00:30:09,342 --> 00:30:11,758
very talented young man.So that's the

610
00:30:11,758 --> 00:30:14,014
power with And I think there's a lot of

611
00:30:14,014 --> 00:30:16,754
power with where Paul calls so many people

612
00:30:16,754 --> 00:30:18,754
his coworkers and the Greek word sun ergos

613
00:30:18,754 --> 00:30:21,346
that words sun at the beginning is this it

614
00:30:21,346 --> 00:30:23,698
He worked with Paul They worked with Paul

615
00:30:23,698 --> 00:30:27,218
They weren't under Paul they worked with

616
00:30:27,218 --> 00:30:28,838
him.Now he seemed to be the boss in some

617
00:30:28,838 --> 00:30:31,334
ways but that is a really dynamic word in

618
00:30:31,334 --> 00:30:34,006
Paul And the final one is power four So

619
00:30:34,006 --> 00:30:37,738
power over power two power with and power

620
00:30:37,738 --> 00:30:42,140
four And that is to use our power for the

621
00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:47,834
good of someone else Jesus said that he

622
00:30:47,834 --> 00:30:52,574
did not come to be served but to serve and

623
00:30:52,574 --> 00:30:57,294
to give his life Testament, ransom for

624
00:30:57,294 --> 00:31:01,630
many.It is when we take our platforms our

625
00:31:01,630 --> 00:31:03,886
power our circumscribed authority and hand

626
00:31:03,886 --> 00:31:05,506
it over to someone else to use for their

627
00:31:05,506 --> 00:31:08,034
giftedness and for what they can bring to

628
00:31:08,034 --> 00:31:13,230
the discussion or that they can contribute

629
00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:17,054
That's where the power dynamic in churches

630
00:31:17,054 --> 00:31:18,546
needs to start Moving away from power over

631
00:31:18,546 --> 00:31:20,610
and away from the neutral sense of power

632
00:31:20,610 --> 00:31:22,326
too toward a more Christian sense of

633
00:31:22,326 --> 00:31:25,126
sharing power and using our power The good

634
00:31:25,126 --> 00:31:27,834
of other people Yes if you're a leader of

635
00:31:27,834 --> 00:31:29,686
what you have responsibility.You have

636
00:31:29,686 --> 00:31:32,154
responsibility to make decisions and not

637
00:31:32,154 --> 00:31:36,026
everybody's going to agree with that And

638
00:31:36,026 --> 00:31:38,666
we don't always have to share the decision

639
00:31:38,666 --> 00:31:41,566
time Sometimes that I'm paradigm professor

640
00:31:41,566 --> 00:31:47,150
and I have to make a decision about the

641
00:31:47,150 --> 00:31:53,906
this student is going to get this grade or

642
00:31:53,906 --> 00:31:57,106
that grade And I don't call the student in

643
00:31:57,106 --> 00:32:02,722
to say now what grade would you like to

644
00:32:02,722 --> 00:32:08,440
have It's not tall shared discussion.But

645
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,760
by and a Christians are so unattached to

646
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,438
power over that they favor sharing power

647
00:32:14,438 --> 00:32:17,766
and using the power for the good of

648
00:32:17,766 --> 00:32:21,594
another And that's where I think churches

649
00:32:21,594 --> 00:32:23,446
can really make family, change.Yeah the

650
00:32:23,446 --> 00:32:25,626
power of giving power away I mean that's

651
00:32:25,626 --> 00:32:28,058
in of Jesus in a nutshell If we could just

652
00:32:28,058 --> 00:32:33,530
summarize his life and what he was doing

653
00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:38,094
and understand the pattern of how he was

654
00:32:38,094 --> 00:32:40,302
interacting with women and people who were

655
00:32:40,302 --> 00:32:44,050
marginalized and being intentional in that

656
00:32:44,050 --> 00:32:47,826
way And I just want to say I've seen you

657
00:32:47,826 --> 00:32:51,554
do that I mean you had definitely done

658
00:32:51,554 --> 00:32:55,330
that with me You didn't know me from

659
00:32:55,330 --> 00:32:59,510
anyone else other than power had a a

660
00:32:59,510 --> 00:33:05,590
interview before but you walked with me

661
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:07,766
behind the scenes emails back and forth

662
00:33:07,766 --> 00:33:12,234
and praying for me and my family when we

663
00:33:12,234 --> 00:33:13,722
went through a difficult time calling out

664
00:33:13,722 --> 00:33:16,506
spiritual abuse that we ourselves had

665
00:33:16,506 --> 00:33:18,666
faced at the and of a megachurch pastor

666
00:33:18,666 --> 00:33:22,398
who ended up a year later getting even

667
00:33:22,398 --> 00:33:24,814
more power over more people.And at this

668
00:33:24,814 --> 00:33:27,774
point we have so many mutual friends that

669
00:33:27,774 --> 00:33:30,446
have also walked through things and helped

670
00:33:30,446 --> 00:33:34,626
us But just thank you for using your power

671
00:33:34,626 --> 00:33:38,260
in this way And I know that recently

672
00:33:38,260 --> 00:33:41,794
there's been a lot going on at the

673
00:33:41,794 --> 00:33:47,510
Seminary too And just by being a professor

674
00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:50,998
there there's a lot of fallout when

675
00:33:50,998 --> 00:33:53,286
something as big as a president being

676
00:33:53,286 --> 00:33:55,974
asked to step down happens And so you're

677
00:33:55,974 --> 00:33:58,506
in a space where it's happening in real

678
00:33:58,506 --> 00:34:00,874
time.At your seminary you've walked

679
00:34:00,874 --> 00:34:02,378
through multiple situations and churches

680
00:34:02,378 --> 00:34:06,586
with Willow Creek and the you've had more

681
00:34:06,586 --> 00:34:10,986
than one round with this So for people who

682
00:34:10,986 --> 00:34:13,280
are listening what do you tell someone who

683
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,166
is either experiencing spiritual abuse or

684
00:34:15,166 --> 00:34:17,134
has someone they know that is experiencing

685
00:34:17,134 --> 00:34:19,886
it What is some of the first piece of

686
00:34:19,886 --> 00:34:25,098
advice you would give someone as they're

687
00:34:25,098 --> 00:34:28,066
just realizing that That's a lot.I learned

688
00:34:28,066 --> 00:34:29,666
something from Diane Langberg and I don't

689
00:34:29,666 --> 00:34:31,874
remember if it was in the conversation we

690
00:34:31,874 --> 00:34:34,402
had with her on the blog or on the podcast

691
00:34:34,402 --> 00:34:38,534
or just in a book but basically she said

692
00:34:38,534 --> 00:34:40,342
don't go public I'm going to summarize

693
00:34:40,342 --> 00:34:42,722
this Don't go public until you're

694
00:34:42,722 --> 00:34:45,238
influence a healthy enough place to take

695
00:34:45,238 --> 00:34:48,602
what happens when you do go public And

696
00:34:48,602 --> 00:34:52,214
when she said that I thought wow that is

697
00:34:52,214 --> 00:34:55,914
so true because Lori you've experienced

698
00:34:55,914 --> 00:34:57,500
this.I haven't experienced this really

699
00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:01,558
other a students don't like things that

700
00:35:01,558 --> 00:35:03,678
you say and people criticize you here and

701
00:35:03,678 --> 00:35:07,290
there on the Internet stuff I mean that's

702
00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:10,030
part of the game that I play But most

703
00:35:10,030 --> 00:35:13,026
people who call out spiritual abuse suffer

704
00:35:13,026 --> 00:35:16,114
more from the secondary trauma of people

705
00:35:16,114 --> 00:35:21,618
going after them a than they do from the

706
00:35:21,618 --> 00:35:26,100
initial trauma itself And this is

707
00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:28,886
something that Chris and I and Laura have

708
00:35:28,886 --> 00:35:32,120
advised people over and over and over

709
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,714
We're dealing right now with a young woman

710
00:35:35,714 --> 00:35:38,086
who has called out a a when she first

711
00:35:38,086 --> 00:35:41,126
wrote me I said well you need to

712
00:35:41,126 --> 00:35:42,810
understand what's going to happen when you

713
00:35:42,810 --> 00:35:45,770
go public with this is people are going to

714
00:35:45,770 --> 00:35:49,894
hate you You're going to lose your friends

715
00:35:49,894 --> 00:35:52,266
you could lose your job at the school

716
00:35:52,266 --> 00:35:54,986
where you are It's going to be difficult

717
00:35:54,986 --> 00:35:57,038
It's going to be very difficult So I would

718
00:35:57,038 --> 00:35:59,806
say first of all get yourself in a

719
00:35:59,806 --> 00:36:03,278
position of being healthy enough to

720
00:36:03,278 --> 00:36:05,682
realize that it's going to come at you in

721
00:36:05,682 --> 00:36:09,026
an even more ferocious way because you've

722
00:36:09,026 --> 00:36:12,226
gone public than because you originally

723
00:36:12,226 --> 00:36:14,930
went public.The second thing is surround

724
00:36:14,930 --> 00:36:16,374
yourself with friends who completely

725
00:36:16,374 --> 00:36:20,102
understand your story and who can be your

726
00:36:20,102 --> 00:36:23,046
advocates and guides as you go through

727
00:36:23,046 --> 00:36:24,758
these things because without that I don't

728
00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:26,310
think most people could survive the

729
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:30,122
scrutiny and the intensity of the blowback

730
00:36:30,122 --> 00:36:35,098
And then this is something that I don't

731
00:36:35,098 --> 00:36:38,730
think all the traumatized people in the

732
00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:41,606
world would agree with But because I teach

733
00:36:41,606 --> 00:36:46,542
at a school I think I lean a little bit in

734
00:36:46,542 --> 00:36:48,382
this direction Follow the protocols or the

735
00:36:48,382 --> 00:36:50,046
guidelines of the school or your

736
00:36:50,046 --> 00:36:52,554
institution for let's say reporting abuse

737
00:36:52,554 --> 00:36:57,922
as much as possible The first thing to do

738
00:36:57,922 --> 00:37:02,722
is don't go to Twitter.People who go to

739
00:37:02,722 --> 00:37:05,878
Twitter first are going to jeopardize the

740
00:37:05,878 --> 00:37:08,486
situation more than they're actually going

741
00:37:08,486 --> 00:37:12,034
to help it But like if your school or your

742
00:37:12,034 --> 00:37:15,250
church has a whistleblower policy follow

743
00:37:15,250 --> 00:37:18,774
it Now most don't most don't want this

744
00:37:18,774 --> 00:37:22,022
because it creates a sense of independent

745
00:37:22,022 --> 00:37:25,638
judgment that the people in power don't

746
00:37:25,638 --> 00:37:30,206
want But there could be a human resources

747
00:37:30,206 --> 00:37:33,246
department that you could report to There

748
00:37:33,246 --> 00:37:40,206
could be some kind of committee that you

749
00:37:40,206 --> 00:37:43,426
could report to but the closer they are to

750
00:37:43,426 --> 00:37:45,346
the people who are the perpetrators or the

751
00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:49,540
ones that you're concerned about it really

752
00:37:49,540 --> 00:37:52,642
jeopardizes honesty and truthfulness.So I

753
00:37:52,642 --> 00:37:55,202
would say follow the pattern And then I

754
00:37:55,202 --> 00:37:57,426
would say fourth you're going to have to

755
00:37:57,426 --> 00:38:00,806
develop a powerful sense of patience and

756
00:38:00,806 --> 00:38:02,054
resilience because it's not going to

757
00:38:02,054 --> 00:38:05,266
happen overnight and it's going to be one

758
00:38:05,266 --> 00:38:07,866
frustrating decision a another It can go

759
00:38:07,866 --> 00:38:14,540
on for years for so people to deal with

760
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:18,954
these situations and you could lose your

761
00:38:18,954 --> 00:38:21,226
job you could lose your friends you could

762
00:38:21,226 --> 00:38:23,454
lose your church your school your

763
00:38:23,454 --> 00:38:29,822
workplace but I would say just don't go

764
00:38:29,822 --> 00:38:32,526
giving it thinking that I'm going to go in

765
00:38:32,526 --> 00:38:35,214
I'm going to tell this deacon and this

766
00:38:35,214 --> 00:38:37,994
deacon and I or this elder and I are going

767
00:38:37,994 --> 00:38:40,514
to go and talk to pastor We're going to

768
00:38:40,514 --> 00:38:42,206
confront the pastor.He's going to repent

769
00:38:42,206 --> 00:38:43,218
and change Okay In the first year that

770
00:38:43,218 --> 00:38:44,786
Laura and I've wrote our book church

771
00:38:44,786 --> 00:38:46,066
Called Tove we heard for 1516 months

772
00:38:46,066 --> 00:38:48,594
between three and five stories a week Okay

773
00:38:48,594 --> 00:38:51,126
I know I don't remember a story where a

774
00:38:51,126 --> 00:38:53,154
person went in and confronted the pastor

775
00:38:53,154 --> 00:38:55,526
and the pastor repented and changed and

776
00:38:55,526 --> 00:38:56,806
for and apologized and made the situation

777
00:38:56,806 --> 00:38:59,154
right I don't remember that happening now

778
00:38:59,154 --> 00:39:02,074
I think there are some pastors who say the

779
00:39:02,074 --> 00:39:04,026
did but a megachurch bunch of baloney in

780
00:39:04,026 --> 00:39:07,082
most cases So you're just going to have to

781
00:39:07,082 --> 00:39:08,986
deal with setbacks blowbacks pushbacks and

782
00:39:08,986 --> 00:39:10,726
you're going to have to have patience and

783
00:39:10,726 --> 00:39:13,306
it's going to be harder than the original

784
00:39:13,306 --> 00:39:14,814
abuse was.Yeah for most people that's true

785
00:39:14,814 --> 00:39:17,278
in our story We obviously called it out We

786
00:39:17,278 --> 00:39:19,166
got fired for that It was retaliation one

787
00:39:19,166 --> 00:39:22,106
of the most illegal forms in California

788
00:39:22,106 --> 00:39:23,770
Even now.It's interesting because I work

789
00:39:23,770 --> 00:39:26,098
something tech and leadership a

790
00:39:26,098 --> 00:39:28,980
development for asked pretty large global

791
00:39:28,980 --> 00:39:31,966
tech company And so I'm a calls with

792
00:39:31,966 --> 00:39:34,046
people happening the UK about to travel

793
00:39:34,046 --> 00:39:36,614
there soon And we have locations in Taiwan

794
00:39:36,614 --> 00:39:39,398
and China It's very diverse and everything

795
00:39:39,398 --> 00:39:42,166
but we are very strong in our company on a

796
00:39:42,166 --> 00:39:45,878
no retaliation policy Even with our survey

797
00:39:45,878 --> 00:39:50,154
we did we don't even allow the people to

798
00:39:50,154 --> 00:39:53,226
see the comments that might retaliate

799
00:39:53,226 --> 00:39:55,226
against them because we want people to

800
00:39:55,226 --> 00:39:57,034
feel free to share any power dynamic that

801
00:39:57,034 --> 00:40:04,954
might be inappropriate.And we a to watch

802
00:40:04,954 --> 00:40:09,166
these trainings where you can't retaliate

803
00:40:09,166 --> 00:40:10,286
by demoting someone giving them less work

804
00:40:10,286 --> 00:40:12,234
And the most extreme version of that would

805
00:40:12,234 --> 00:40:14,306
be to fire someone for saying something

806
00:40:14,306 --> 00:40:20,770
And yet our church got away with it That

807
00:40:20,770 --> 00:40:23,650
church is still going The person who did

808
00:40:23,650 --> 00:40:25,686
that is now in a church.And the other

809
00:40:25,686 --> 00:40:28,040
abuser of these two guys is now leading

810
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,694
one of the largest evangelical churches in

811
00:40:30,694 --> 00:40:35,954
the US Here in California in Saddleback

812
00:40:35,954 --> 00:40:41,174
And it's interesting how retaliation just

813
00:40:41,174 --> 00:40:44,282
gets so glossed over And it's sad because

814
00:40:44,282 --> 00:40:46,986
as we're talking About the scripture and

815
00:40:46,986 --> 00:40:48,262
talking about how.Important words are it's

816
00:40:48,262 --> 00:40:49,882
so important to be good listeners and care

817
00:40:49,882 --> 00:40:54,494
for one Another in the church And I just

818
00:40:54,494 --> 00:41:03,202
want to say thank you for taking the time

819
00:41:03,202 --> 00:41:06,434
to dig deep into Greek words culture and

820
00:41:06,434 --> 00:41:10,386
help us exegeute this trauma little bit

821
00:41:10,386 --> 00:41:12,946
better by helping it sound like something

822
00:41:12,946 --> 00:41:15,766
less familiar in advised way that can help

823
00:41:15,766 --> 00:41:17,782
us really dig deeper I think so often

824
00:41:17,782 --> 00:41:23,640
people don't dig deep and that's why abuse

825
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,534
gets covered up That's why power dynamics

826
00:41:26,534 --> 00:41:28,598
stay because we.Just take things at face

827
00:41:28,598 --> 00:41:30,842
value And you're asking us to just go a

828
00:41:30,842 --> 00:41:32,666
little deeper even with the scriptures

829
00:41:32,666 --> 00:41:35,386
that we read So thank your for this work I

830
00:41:35,386 --> 00:41:39,498
know it must have taken many Hours to make

831
00:41:39,498 --> 00:41:41,454
and so we're so.Grateful for your work on

832
00:41:41,454 --> 00:41:45,280
this but It'S so difficult to go public

833
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,254
because there's just clouds of power

834
00:41:48,254 --> 00:41:51,454
against you all the time when you when you

835
00:41:51,454 --> 00:41:55,460
start doing it and it's you can study and

836
00:41:55,460 --> 00:41:59,074
you can figure out and you say you know

837
00:41:59,074 --> 00:42:03,666
that was abuse And they'll say no it was

838
00:42:03,666 --> 00:42:07,094
leadership And they have the power to be

839
00:42:07,094 --> 00:42:11,014
able to narrate the story And you as a

840
00:42:11,014 --> 00:42:14,774
victim whoever we're talking about doesn't

841
00:42:14,774 --> 00:42:16,790
have the power to narrate that

842
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:20,186
story.Someone else gets to tell the story

843
00:42:20,186 --> 00:42:25,962
and they get to gloss over it and they use

844
00:42:25,962 --> 00:42:28,314
their words to victimize

845
00:42:28,314 --> 00:42:29,322
revictimize.Clearly for me the most

846
00:42:29,322 --> 00:42:31,920
demanding and difficult thing I done in my

847
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,958
entire life working in the church is to

848
00:42:34,958 --> 00:42:38,394
realize how difficult it is for lots of

849
00:42:38,394 --> 00:42:41,998
church leaders and pastors simply to admit

850
00:42:41,998 --> 00:42:45,760
the truth.So sad because the truth sets us

851
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,726
free Isn't that the whole thing Yeah

852
00:42:47,726 --> 00:42:50,926
exactly Well thank you so much for your

853
00:42:50,926 --> 00:42:54,254
work I do want to ask you to.Hang out than

854
00:42:54,254 --> 00:42:55,942
little bit longer for our patreon

855
00:42:55,942 --> 00:42:58,338
supporters to do one more question with

856
00:42:58,338 --> 00:43:01,414
them but we'll go ahead And finish out

857
00:43:01,414 --> 00:43:04,838
this interview If you're not in our

858
00:43:04,838 --> 00:43:07,946
patreon community a join But I just want

859
00:43:07,946 --> 00:43:10,346
to thank you for joining us today Scott

860
00:43:10,346 --> 00:43:13,306
You are just not only department scholar

861
00:43:13,306 --> 00:43:18,554
that we can trust because we know that

862
00:43:18,554 --> 00:43:20,766
you're going to dig into the Greek words

863
00:43:20,766 --> 00:43:23,134
and help us understand them.But we also

864
00:43:23,134 --> 00:43:24,958
know you as a person in the survivor

865
00:43:24,958 --> 00:43:28,522
community as somebody who does actually

866
00:43:28,522 --> 00:43:32,014
pastoral care very well and caring for us

867
00:43:32,014 --> 00:43:35,138
I just say thank you on behalf of all of

868
00:43:35,138 --> 00:43:38,254
us in the survivor community a for me and

869
00:43:38,254 --> 00:43:42,130
my family And all that you've done for us

870
00:43:42,130 --> 00:43:47,074
To pray for us and engage with Us

871
00:43:47,074 --> 00:43:51,670
throughout the past couple of years.Well

872
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:54,502
thank you Great to see you again Great to

873
00:43:54,502 --> 00:43:59,146
see you too Scott Take care Bye undefined

874
00:43:59,146 --> 00:44:00,170
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875
00:44:00,170 --> 00:44:00,986
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876
00:44:00,986 --> 00:44:02,490
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877
00:44:02,490 --> 00:44:05,706
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878
00:44:05,706 --> 00:44:07,834
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879
00:44:07,834 --> 00:44:08,970
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880
00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:09,626
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881
00:44:09,626 --> 00:44:10,874
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882
00:44:10,874 --> 00:44:12,154
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883
00:44:12,154 --> 00:44:13,162
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884
00:44:13,162 --> 00:44:14,078
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885
00:44:14,078 --> 00:44:14,478
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886
00:44:14,478 --> 00:44:15,086
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887
00:44:15,086 --> 00:44:16,286
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888
00:44:16,286 --> 00:44:17,418
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889
00:44:17,418 --> 00:44:18,254
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890
00:44:18,254 --> 00:44:21,326
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891
00:44:21,326 --> 00:44:22,378
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892
00:44:22,378 --> 00:44:23,154
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893
00:44:23,154 --> 00:44:25,090
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894
00:44:25,090 --> 00:44:28,414
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895
00:44:28,414 --> 00:44:29,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

896
00:44:29,586 --> 00:44:30,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

897
00:44:30,946 --> 00:44:34,946
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898
00:44:34,946 --> 00:44:36,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

899
00:44:36,726 --> 00:44:37,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

900
00:44:37,974 --> 00:44:38,918
undefined undefined undefined undefined

901
00:44:38,918 --> 00:44:39,954
undefined undefined undefined undefined

902
00:44:39,954 --> 00:44:41,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

903
00:44:41,334 --> 00:44:43,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

904
00:44:43,334 --> 00:44:45,080
undefined undefined undefined undefined

905
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,902
undefined undefined undefined undefined

906
00:44:46,902 --> 00:44:48,250
undefined undefined undefined undefined

907
00:44:48,250 --> 00:44:49,254
undefined undefined undefined undefined

908
00:44:49,254 --> 00:44:50,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

909
00:44:50,346 --> 00:44:51,318
undefined undefined undefined undefined

910
00:44:51,318 --> 00:44:52,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

911
00:44:52,794 --> 00:44:55,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

912
00:44:55,434 --> 00:44:56,362
undefined undefined undefined undefined

913
00:44:56,362 --> 00:44:58,582
undefined undefined undefined undefined

914
00:44:58,582 --> 00:45:01,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

915
00:45:01,758 --> 00:45:02,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

916
00:45:02,206 --> 00:45:03,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

917
00:45:03,726 --> 00:45:07,262
undefined undefined undefined undefined

918
00:45:07,262 --> 00:45:10,560
undefined undefined undefined undefined

919
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,602
undefined undefined undefined undefined

920
00:45:13,602 --> 00:45:16,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

921
00:45:16,354 --> 00:45:18,034
undefined undefined undefined undefined

922
00:45:18,034 --> 00:45:18,834
undefined undefined undefined undefined

923
00:45:18,834 --> 00:45:19,938
undefined undefined undefined undefined

924
00:45:19,938 --> 00:45:22,418
undefined undefined undefined undefined

925
00:45:22,418 --> 00:45:23,598
undefined undefined undefined undefined

926
00:45:23,598 --> 00:45:25,474
undefined undefined undefined undefined

927
00:45:25,474 --> 00:45:26,694
undefined undefined undefined undefined

928
00:45:26,694 --> 00:45:27,686
undefined undefined undefined undefined

929
00:45:27,686 --> 00:45:28,982
undefined undefined undefined undefined

930
00:45:28,982 --> 00:45:30,770
undefined undefined undefined undefined

931
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:33,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

932
00:45:33,862 --> 00:45:35,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

933
00:45:35,414 --> 00:45:36,290
undefined undefined undefined undefined

934
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:37,222
undefined undefined undefined undefined

935
00:45:37,222 --> 00:45:38,310
undefined undefined undefined undefined

936
00:45:38,310 --> 00:45:39,650
undefined undefined undefined undefined

937
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:40,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

938
00:45:40,726 --> 00:45:41,994
undefined undefined undefined undefined

939
00:45:41,994 --> 00:45:43,146
undefined undefined undefined undefined

940
00:45:43,146 --> 00:45:44,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

941
00:45:44,666 --> 00:45:46,634
undefined undefined undefined undefined

942
00:45:46,634 --> 00:45:47,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

943
00:45:47,754 --> 00:45:48,954
undefined undefined undefined undefined

944
00:45:48,954 --> 00:45:50,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

945
00:45:50,426 --> 00:45:51,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

946
00:45:51,306 --> 00:45:52,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

947
00:45:52,446 --> 00:45:53,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

948
00:45:53,166 --> 00:45:53,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

949
00:45:53,886 --> 00:45:55,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

950
00:45:55,786 --> 00:45:57,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

951
00:45:57,226 --> 00:45:58,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

952
00:45:58,606 --> 00:45:59,822
undefined undefined undefined undefined

953
00:45:59,822 --> 00:46:01,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

954
00:46:01,758 --> 00:46:03,294
undefined undefined undefined undefined

955
00:46:03,294 --> 00:46:04,766
undefined undefined undefined undefined

956
00:46:04,766 --> 00:46:05,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

957
00:46:05,758 --> 00:46:06,386
undefined undefined undefined undefined

958
00:46:06,386 --> 00:46:08,802
undefined undefined undefined undefined

959
00:46:08,802 --> 00:46:10,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

960
00:46:10,626 --> 00:46:11,458
undefined undefined undefined undefined

961
00:46:11,458 --> 00:46:12,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

962
00:46:12,226 --> 00:46:13,074
undefined undefined undefined undefined

963
00:46:13,074 --> 00:46:13,874
undefined undefined undefined undefined

964
00:46:13,874 --> 00:46:14,990
undefined undefined undefined undefined

965
00:46:14,990 --> 00:46:16,146
undefined undefined undefined undefined

966
00:46:16,146 --> 00:46:17,030
undefined undefined undefined undefined

967
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:17,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

968
00:46:17,926 --> 00:46:19,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

969
00:46:19,986 --> 00:46:20,822
undefined undefined undefined undefined

970
00:46:20,822 --> 00:46:21,766
undefined undefined undefined undefined

971
00:46:21,766 --> 00:46:23,798
undefined undefined undefined undefined

972
00:46:23,798 --> 00:46:26,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

973
00:46:26,854 --> 00:46:28,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

974
00:46:28,566 --> 00:46:29,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

975
00:46:29,446 --> 00:46:30,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

976
00:46:30,266 --> 00:46:31,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

977
00:46:31,434 --> 00:46:33,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

978
00:46:33,306 --> 00:46:34,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

979
00:46:34,906 --> 00:46:36,234
undefined undefined undefined undefined

980
00:46:36,234 --> 00:46:37,450
undefined undefined undefined undefined

981
00:46:37,450 --> 00:46:39,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

982
00:46:39,194 --> 00:46:39,898
undefined undefined undefined undefined

983
00:46:39,898 --> 00:46:40,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

984
00:46:40,734 --> 00:46:41,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

985
00:46:41,854 --> 00:46:44,938
undefined undefined undefined undefined

986
00:46:44,938 --> 00:46:46,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

987
00:46:46,974 --> 00:46:48,158
undefined undefined undefined undefined

988
00:46:48,158 --> 00:46:49,326
undefined undefined undefined undefined

989
00:46:49,326 --> 00:46:50,990
undefined undefined undefined undefined

990
00:46:50,990 --> 00:46:53,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

991
00:46:53,006 --> 00:46:53,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

992
00:46:53,934 --> 00:46:55,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

993
00:46:55,374 --> 00:46:56,450
undefined undefined undefined undefined

994
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:57,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

995
00:46:57,794 --> 00:46:58,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

996
00:46:58,674 --> 00:46:59,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

997
00:46:59,746 --> 00:47:01,214
undefined undefined undefined undefined

998
00:47:01,214 --> 00:47:02,834
undefined undefined undefined undefined

999
00:47:02,834 --> 00:47:03,762
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1000
00:47:03,762 --> 00:47:04,882
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1001
00:47:04,882 --> 00:47:05,714
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1002
00:47:05,714 --> 00:47:06,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1003
00:47:06,626 --> 00:47:07,618
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1004
00:47:07,618 --> 00:47:09,094
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1005
00:47:09,094 --> 00:47:09,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1006
00:47:09,862 --> 00:47:10,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1007
00:47:10,566 --> 00:47:12,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1008
00:47:12,566 --> 00:47:14,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1009
00:47:14,006 --> 00:47:15,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1010
00:47:15,286 --> 00:47:16,118
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1011
00:47:16,118 --> 00:47:19,800
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1012
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,700
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1013
00:47:22,700 --> 00:47:25,260
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1014
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:27,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1015
00:47:27,274 --> 00:47:28,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1016
00:47:28,186 --> 00:47:29,114
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1017
00:47:29,114 --> 00:47:31,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1018
00:47:31,194 --> 00:47:32,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1019
00:47:32,586 --> 00:47:33,386
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1020
00:47:33,386 --> 00:47:34,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1021
00:47:34,006 --> 00:47:35,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1022
00:47:35,006 --> 00:47:35,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1023
00:47:35,886 --> 00:47:38,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1024
00:47:38,574 --> 00:47:40,366
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1025
00:47:40,366 --> 00:47:41,498
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1026
00:47:41,498 --> 00:47:44,562
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1027
00:47:44,562 --> 00:47:47,630
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1028
00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:51,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1029
00:47:51,054 --> 00:47:51,874
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1030
00:47:51,874 --> 00:47:53,442
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1031
00:47:53,442 --> 00:47:54,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1032
00:47:54,354 --> 00:47:56,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1033
00:47:56,166 --> 00:47:57,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1034
00:47:57,334 --> 00:47:58,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1035
00:47:58,374 --> 00:48:01,458
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1036
00:48:01,458 --> 00:48:10,330
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1037
00:48:10,330 --> 00:48:12,842
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1038
00:48:12,842 --> 00:48:14,314
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1039
00:48:14,314 --> 00:48:15,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1040
00:48:15,674 --> 00:48:17,030
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1041
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:19,642
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1042
00:48:19,642 --> 00:48:21,102
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1043
00:48:21,102 --> 00:48:22,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1044
00:48:22,186 --> 00:48:24,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1045
00:48:24,814 --> 00:48:28,894
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1046
00:48:28,894 --> 00:48:30,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1047
00:48:30,106 --> 00:48:31,018
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1048
00:48:31,018 --> 00:48:31,710
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1049
00:48:31,710 --> 00:48:35,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1050
00:48:35,454 --> 00:48:36,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1051
00:48:36,206 --> 00:48:37,646
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1052
00:48:37,646 --> 00:48:38,386
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1053
00:48:38,386 --> 00:48:39,298
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1054
00:48:39,298 --> 00:48:40,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1055
00:48:40,866 --> 00:48:42,098
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1056
00:48:42,098 --> 00:48:42,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1057
00:48:42,754 --> 00:48:43,438
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1058
00:48:43,438 --> 00:48:44,402
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1059
00:48:44,402 --> 00:48:45,378
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1060
00:48:45,378 --> 00:48:45,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1061
00:48:45,906 --> 00:48:47,810
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1062
00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:49,238
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1063
00:48:49,238 --> 00:48:50,182
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1064
00:48:50,182 --> 00:48:52,162
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1065
00:48:52,162 --> 00:48:53,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1066
00:48:53,814 --> 00:48:55,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1067
00:48:55,126 --> 00:48:55,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1068
00:48:55,926 --> 00:48:56,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1069
00:48:56,486 --> 00:48:57,094
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1070
00:48:57,094 --> 00:48:58,278
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1071
00:48:58,278 --> 00:48:59,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1072
00:48:59,126 --> 00:49:00,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1073
00:49:00,374 --> 00:49:01,210
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1074
00:49:01,210 --> 00:49:02,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1075
00:49:02,426 --> 00:49:04,202
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1076
00:49:04,202 --> 00:49:06,602
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1077
00:49:06,602 --> 00:49:07,706
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1078
00:49:07,706 --> 00:49:08,618
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1079
00:49:08,618 --> 00:49:09,478
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1080
00:49:09,478 --> 00:49:09,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1081
00:49:09,946 --> 00:49:10,890
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1082
00:49:10,890 --> 00:49:11,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1083
00:49:11,946 --> 00:49:12,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1084
00:49:12,746 --> 00:49:13,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1085
00:49:13,786 --> 00:49:14,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1086
00:49:14,606 --> 00:49:15,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1087
00:49:15,886 --> 00:49:16,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1088
00:49:16,734 --> 00:49:18,094
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1089
00:49:18,094 --> 00:49:19,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1090
00:49:19,086 --> 00:49:21,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1091
00:49:21,054 --> 00:49:21,694
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1092
00:49:21,694 --> 00:49:23,730
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1093
00:49:23,730 --> 00:49:27,038
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1094
00:49:27,038 --> 00:49:28,066
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1095
00:49:28,066 --> 00:49:29,378
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1096
00:49:29,378 --> 00:49:31,874
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1097
00:49:31,874 --> 00:49:33,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1098
00:49:33,166 --> 00:49:34,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1099
00:49:34,466 --> 00:49:35,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1100
00:49:35,986 --> 00:49:37,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1101
00:49:37,846 --> 00:49:39,526
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1102
00:49:39,526 --> 00:49:40,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1103
00:49:40,934 --> 00:49:44,614
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1104
00:49:44,614 --> 00:49:45,526
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1105
00:49:45,526 --> 00:49:46,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1106
00:49:46,626 --> 00:49:47,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1107
00:49:47,946 --> 00:49:48,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1108
00:49:48,906 --> 00:49:52,074
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1109
00:49:52,074 --> 00:49:53,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1110
00:49:53,914 --> 00:49:55,882
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1111
00:49:55,882 --> 00:49:57,114
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1112
00:49:57,114 --> 00:49:57,978
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1113
00:49:57,978 --> 00:50:00,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1114
00:50:00,266 --> 00:50:01,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1115
00:50:01,546 --> 00:50:02,310
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1116
00:50:02,310 --> 00:50:03,022
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1117
00:50:03,022 --> 00:50:04,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1118
00:50:04,494 --> 00:50:07,386
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1119
00:50:07,386 --> 00:50:08,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1120
00:50:08,286 --> 00:50:09,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1121
00:50:09,934 --> 00:50:11,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1122
00:50:11,006 --> 00:50:11,678
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1123
00:50:11,678 --> 00:50:13,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1124
00:50:13,934 --> 00:50:15,038
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1125
00:50:15,038 --> 00:50:15,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1126
00:50:15,906 --> 00:50:17,234
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1127
00:50:17,234 --> 00:50:18,498
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1128
00:50:18,498 --> 00:50:19,774
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1129
00:50:19,774 --> 00:50:20,930
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1130
00:50:20,930 --> 00:50:22,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1131
00:50:22,866 --> 00:50:23,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1132
00:50:23,666 --> 00:50:25,282
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1133
00:50:25,282 --> 00:50:26,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1134
00:50:26,754 --> 00:50:27,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1135
00:50:27,574 --> 00:50:29,000
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1136
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1137
00:50:31,494 --> 00:50:32,806
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1138
00:50:32,806 --> 00:50:33,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1139
00:50:33,666 --> 00:50:34,822
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1140
00:50:34,822 --> 00:50:36,534
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1141
00:50:36,534 --> 00:50:37,706
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1142
00:50:37,706 --> 00:50:38,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1143
00:50:38,758 --> 00:50:40,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1144
00:50:40,138 --> 00:50:41,242
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1145
00:50:41,242 --> 00:50:43,722
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1146
00:50:43,722 --> 00:50:45,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1147
00:50:45,606 --> 00:50:48,170
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1148
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:49,722
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1149
00:50:49,722 --> 00:50:51,098
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1150
00:50:51,098 --> 00:50:53,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1151
00:50:53,274 --> 00:50:55,646
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1152
00:50:55,646 --> 00:50:56,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1153
00:50:56,846 --> 00:50:58,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1154
00:50:58,414 --> 00:50:59,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1155
00:50:59,354 --> 00:51:01,514
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1156
00:51:01,514 --> 00:51:03,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1157
00:51:03,554 --> 00:51:04,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1158
00:51:04,914 --> 00:51:06,482
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1159
00:51:06,482 --> 00:51:07,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1160
00:51:07,906 --> 00:51:10,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1161
00:51:10,434 --> 00:51:12,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1162
00:51:12,606 --> 00:51:14,260
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1163
00:51:14,260 --> 00:51:16,270
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1164
00:51:16,270 --> 00:51:17,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1165
00:51:17,666 --> 00:51:19,558
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1166
00:51:19,558 --> 00:51:20,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1167
00:51:20,966 --> 00:51:22,022
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1168
00:51:22,022 --> 00:51:24,360
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1169
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,070
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1170
00:51:26,070 --> 00:51:27,046
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1171
00:51:27,046 --> 00:51:29,066
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1172
00:51:29,066 --> 00:51:29,962
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1173
00:51:29,962 --> 00:51:32,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1174
00:51:32,186 --> 00:51:33,254
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1175
00:51:33,254 --> 00:51:33,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1176
00:51:33,946 --> 00:51:35,530
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1177
00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:37,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1178
00:51:37,866 --> 00:51:38,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1179
00:51:38,854 --> 00:51:40,826
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1180
00:51:40,826 --> 00:51:42,382
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1181
00:51:42,382 --> 00:51:43,742
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1182
00:51:43,742 --> 00:51:44,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1183
00:51:44,974 --> 00:51:47,118
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1184
00:51:47,118 --> 00:51:48,174
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1185
00:51:48,174 --> 00:51:49,822
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1186
00:51:49,822 --> 00:51:53,342
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1187
00:51:53,342 --> 00:51:54,820
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1188
00:51:54,820 --> 00:51:56,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1189
00:51:56,466 --> 00:51:58,130
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1190
00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:59,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1191
00:51:59,426 --> 00:52:00,898
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1192
00:52:00,898 --> 00:52:03,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1193
00:52:03,586 --> 00:52:04,146
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1194
00:52:04,146 --> 00:52:06,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1195
00:52:06,226 --> 00:52:07,506
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1196
00:52:07,506 --> 00:52:08,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1197
00:52:08,886 --> 00:52:10,262
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1198
00:52:10,262 --> 00:52:11,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1199
00:52:11,426 --> 00:52:12,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1200
00:52:12,454 --> 00:52:13,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1201
00:52:13,862 --> 00:52:14,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1202
00:52:14,854 --> 00:52:16,294
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1203
00:52:16,294 --> 00:52:18,326
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1204
00:52:18,326 --> 00:52:20,314
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1205
00:52:20,314 --> 00:52:23,398
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1206
00:52:23,398 --> 00:52:24,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1207
00:52:24,794 --> 00:52:26,858
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1208
00:52:26,858 --> 00:52:28,314
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1209
00:52:28,314 --> 00:52:30,022
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1210
00:52:30,022 --> 00:52:30,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1211
00:52:30,926 --> 00:52:32,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1212
00:52:32,846 --> 00:52:34,302
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1213
00:52:34,302 --> 00:52:36,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1214
00:52:36,734 --> 00:52:37,998
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1215
00:52:37,998 --> 00:52:40,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1216
00:52:40,414 --> 00:52:41,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1217
00:52:41,886 --> 00:52:43,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1218
00:52:43,306 --> 00:52:44,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1219
00:52:44,574 --> 00:52:45,910
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1220
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:47,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1221
00:52:47,746 --> 00:52:48,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1222
00:52:48,866 --> 00:52:49,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1223
00:52:49,986 --> 00:52:51,140
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1224
00:52:51,140 --> 00:52:52,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1225
00:52:52,846 --> 00:52:53,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1226
00:52:53,886 --> 00:52:54,578
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1227
00:52:54,578 --> 00:52:55,534
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1228
00:52:55,534 --> 00:52:57,890
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1229
00:52:57,890 --> 00:52:59,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1230
00:52:59,106 --> 00:53:00,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1231
00:53:00,434 --> 00:53:01,910
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1232
00:53:01,910 --> 00:53:03,798
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1233
00:53:03,798 --> 00:53:05,174
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1234
00:53:05,174 --> 00:53:06,038
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1235
00:53:06,038 --> 00:53:06,742
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1236
00:53:06,742 --> 00:53:07,718
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1237
00:53:07,718 --> 00:53:10,118
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1238
00:53:10,118 --> 00:53:10,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1239
00:53:10,794 --> 00:53:11,798
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1240
00:53:11,798 --> 00:53:12,506
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1241
00:53:12,506 --> 00:53:13,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1242
00:53:13,546 --> 00:53:16,362
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1243
00:53:16,362 --> 00:53:17,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1244
00:53:17,354 --> 00:53:17,994
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1245
00:53:17,994 --> 00:53:21,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1246
00:53:21,354 --> 00:53:22,478
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1247
00:53:22,478 --> 00:53:25,150
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1248
00:53:25,150 --> 00:53:27,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1249
00:53:27,758 --> 00:53:28,766
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1250
00:53:28,766 --> 00:53:29,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1251
00:53:29,966 --> 00:53:31,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1252
00:53:31,086 --> 00:53:32,778
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1253
00:53:32,778 --> 00:53:33,218
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1254
00:53:33,218 --> 00:53:33,778
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1255
00:53:33,778 --> 00:53:34,978
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1256
00:53:34,978 --> 00:53:37,938
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1257
00:53:37,938 --> 00:53:39,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1258
00:53:39,454 --> 00:53:40,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1259
00:53:40,434 --> 00:53:42,882
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1260
00:53:42,882 --> 00:53:46,582
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1261
00:53:46,582 --> 00:53:48,326
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1262
00:53:48,326 --> 00:53:49,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1263
00:53:49,862 --> 00:53:50,918
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1264
00:53:50,918 --> 00:53:53,078
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1265
00:53:53,078 --> 00:53:54,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1266
00:53:54,006 --> 00:53:55,634
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1267
00:53:55,634 --> 00:53:57,382
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1268
00:53:57,382 --> 00:53:58,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1269
00:53:58,454 --> 00:53:59,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1270
00:53:59,546 --> 00:54:00,630
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1271
00:54:00,630 --> 00:54:02,614
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1272
00:54:02,614 --> 00:54:03,594
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1273
00:54:03,594 --> 00:54:05,302
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1274
00:54:05,302 --> 00:54:06,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1275
00:54:06,666 --> 00:54:08,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1276
00:54:08,934 --> 00:54:09,894
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1277
00:54:09,894 --> 00:54:11,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1278
00:54:11,226 --> 00:54:13,520
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1279
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1280
00:54:17,466 --> 00:54:20,698
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1281
00:54:20,698 --> 00:54:21,662
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1282
00:54:21,662 --> 00:54:23,870
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1283
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:25,362
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1284
00:54:25,362 --> 00:54:26,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1285
00:54:26,354 --> 00:54:28,002
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1286
00:54:28,002 --> 00:54:29,154
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1287
00:54:29,154 --> 00:54:30,580
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1288
00:54:30,580 --> 00:54:33,294
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1289
00:54:33,294 --> 00:54:34,066
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1290
00:54:34,066 --> 00:54:35,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1291
00:54:35,346 --> 00:54:36,034
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1292
00:54:36,034 --> 00:54:37,650
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1293
00:54:37,650 --> 00:54:39,250
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1294
00:54:39,250 --> 00:54:40,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1295
00:54:40,486 --> 00:54:41,762
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1296
00:54:41,762 --> 00:54:42,518
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1297
00:54:42,518 --> 00:54:43,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1298
00:54:43,574 --> 00:54:44,870
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1299
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:45,654
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1300
00:54:45,654 --> 00:54:46,406
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1301
00:54:46,406 --> 00:54:47,462
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1302
00:54:47,462 --> 00:54:48,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1303
00:54:48,454 --> 00:54:49,254
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1304
00:54:49,254 --> 00:54:50,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1305
00:54:50,374 --> 00:54:51,430
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1306
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:52,614
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1307
00:54:52,614 --> 00:54:54,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1308
00:54:54,426 --> 00:54:56,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1309
00:54:56,486 --> 00:54:57,594
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1310
00:54:57,594 --> 00:54:58,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1311
00:54:58,746 --> 00:54:59,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1312
00:54:59,306 --> 00:55:00,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1313
00:55:00,346 --> 00:55:02,154
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1314
00:55:02,154 --> 00:55:04,094
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1315
00:55:04,094 --> 00:55:05,022
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1316
00:55:05,022 --> 00:55:06,046
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1317
00:55:06,046 --> 00:55:07,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1318
00:55:07,754 --> 00:55:08,826
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1319
00:55:08,826 --> 00:55:10,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1320
00:55:10,906 --> 00:55:11,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1321
00:55:11,854 --> 00:55:12,894
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1322
00:55:12,894 --> 00:55:14,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1323
00:55:14,334 --> 00:55:15,902
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1324
00:55:15,902 --> 00:55:17,538
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1325
00:55:17,538 --> 00:55:18,498
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1326
00:55:18,498 --> 00:55:19,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1327
00:55:19,186 --> 00:55:21,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1328
00:55:21,346 --> 00:55:22,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1329
00:55:22,226 --> 00:55:23,538
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1330
00:55:23,538 --> 00:55:24,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1331
00:55:24,546 --> 00:55:25,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1332
00:55:25,266 --> 00:55:26,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1333
00:55:26,446 --> 00:55:27,394
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1334
00:55:27,394 --> 00:55:28,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1335
00:55:28,546 --> 00:55:29,510
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1336
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:31,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1337
00:55:31,206 --> 00:55:32,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1338
00:55:32,374 --> 00:55:33,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1339
00:55:33,494 --> 00:55:34,630
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1340
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:35,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1341
00:55:35,414 --> 00:55:36,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1342
00:55:36,054 --> 00:55:37,062
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1343
00:55:37,062 --> 00:55:39,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1344
00:55:39,494 --> 00:55:40,326
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1345
00:55:40,326 --> 00:55:41,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1346
00:55:41,746 --> 00:55:42,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1347
00:55:42,666 --> 00:55:43,994
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1348
00:55:43,994 --> 00:55:45,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1349
00:55:45,206 --> 00:55:46,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1350
00:55:46,266 --> 00:55:47,658
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1351
00:55:47,658 --> 00:55:48,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1352
00:55:48,266 --> 00:55:49,114
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1353
00:55:49,114 --> 00:55:49,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1354
00:55:49,946 --> 00:55:50,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1355
00:55:50,586 --> 00:55:51,610
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1356
00:55:51,610 --> 00:55:52,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1357
00:55:52,746 --> 00:55:53,830
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1358
00:55:53,830 --> 00:55:54,922
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1359
00:55:54,922 --> 00:55:55,818
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1360
00:55:55,818 --> 00:55:56,798
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1361
00:55:56,798 --> 00:55:57,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1362
00:55:57,566 --> 00:55:58,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1363
00:55:58,814 --> 00:55:59,534
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1364
00:55:59,534 --> 00:56:00,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1365
00:56:00,494 --> 00:56:01,246
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1366
00:56:01,246 --> 00:56:02,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1367
00:56:02,814 --> 00:56:03,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1368
00:56:03,758 --> 00:56:04,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1369
00:56:04,734 --> 00:56:06,298
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1370
00:56:06,298 --> 00:56:07,246
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1371
00:56:07,246 --> 00:56:08,538
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1372
00:56:08,538 --> 00:56:09,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1373
00:56:09,966 --> 00:56:11,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1374
00:56:11,006 --> 00:56:12,702
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1375
00:56:12,702 --> 00:56:14,458
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1376
00:56:14,458 --> 00:56:15,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1377
00:56:15,446 --> 00:56:16,214
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1378
00:56:16,214 --> 00:56:18,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1379
00:56:18,086 --> 00:56:19,910
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1380
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:21,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1381
00:56:21,554 --> 00:56:22,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1382
00:56:22,486 --> 00:56:23,318
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1383
00:56:23,318 --> 00:56:24,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1384
00:56:24,006 --> 00:56:25,158
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1385
00:56:25,158 --> 00:56:26,598
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1386
00:56:26,598 --> 00:56:27,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1387
00:56:27,862 --> 00:56:28,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

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